The Truth Behind the “Drop the T” Petition: It Ain’t The HomoCons or the Trans-Exclusive Radical Feminists (TERFs)

Will Kohler

Will Kohler is a noted LGBT historian, writer, blogger and owner of Back2Stonewall.com. A longtime gay activist, Will fought on the front lines of the AIDS epidemic with ACT-UP and continues fighting today for LGBT acceptance and full equality. Will’s work has been referenced in notable media venues as MSNBC and BBC News, The Washington Post, The Advocate, The Daily Beast, Hollywood Reporter, Raw Story, and The Huffington Post

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9 Responses

  1. Julian says:

    Good post, Will. But this isn’t just about politics. I disagree that it’s about the political convenience of “dropping the T”.

    It’s a fundamental difference of opinion. A transgender ideology that denies biological sex exists, cannot co-exist with homosexuality. We fought for the right to love our own sex. Now they want to redefine sex and call us bigots for asserting our identity. And turn gay kids into transgenders.

    I’ve been with this thing from the start, and for me it’s simply about standing up for gay people. That’s all it’s about. I’ll do whatever it takes to support gay people against those who threaten us, even if that means fighting those “on our side”.

    • sicklefang says:

      It’s not really a fundamental difference of opinion.

      None of us are saying all gay people are actually just trans. Fuck, /I’m/ gay. A lot of other trans people are too. They could live life as a straight man or woman, but they’re not doing that, because that’s not who they are. It never was who they were and it’ll never be who they are.

      You know what else we’re not saying? That all guys must be 100% manly and all woman 100% feminine.

      There’s trans men who wear dresses and are drag. There’s trans women who are butch.

      Does that make them any less of a man or woman? Fuck no.

      And the same goes for cis people.
      If you’re a guy and you like wearing dresses? Go for it. And don’t worry, it doesn’t make you a woman. If you’re a woman and you’re not in the least bit feminine? Doesn’t mean you’re not a woman – and never let anyone tell you it does, because whoever is saying that is a dirty liar.

      All we’re saying is, that if you’re a woman you’re a woman. And if you’re a man, you’re a man. And it doesn’t matter if you have a penis or a vagina, because that is not what makes you a woman /or/ a man.
      The fact that you identify as a woman or man is what makes you a woman or man.
      (And the same goes for non-binary and agender people. If you identify as that, then that is who you are (and if you feel dysphoria when trying to identify as who others say you are, or when imagining being who everyone else thinks you are, then that is most likely not who you are).)

      Where is that difference of opinion you’re talking about? Because I’m not seeing it. (But I tend to miss all kinds of obvious things, so maybe I’m just missing it here as well. So, if that’s the case: Point it out. I want to see it too.)

      • So you as a gay man date and sleep with people with vagina’s (and breasts) when they say they are men?

        • sicklefang says:

          There was a reply here.
          It’s gone now.

          Well, at least as far as I can tell.
          Because, y’know, I actually already wrote (and posted) a reply to your comment yesterday.
          But it seems to have diappeared (at least as far as I can tell), so you’ll get the short version now:

          I’m probably the worst person to ask this question to.

          Because I’m not just homosexual, but also grey-ace (aka, been sexually attracted towards 2 people (both guys) in my entire life and am not sex-repulsed (and also not vagina/penis-repulsed)), so I honestly don’t really care about anyone’s specific genitals or somesuch.

          I’m also kind of romance-repulsed (aka, the thought of dating someone that I’m not friends/close with already seems… well, it makes me feel like I might throw up, to put it simple). I just don’t think I could ever date someone I wouldn’t already be friends/close with before the entire dating-thing, without feeling at least mild repulsion at something as simple as holding hands, or kissing them or whatever else there is.
          Weirdly enough, dating a (hypothetical) friend or someone I’d already be close to before we started to date doesn’t repulse me at all.
          So, I’m pretty sure I’ll only ever end up dating people that I’m already close/friends with before going on the first date.

          As such, it seems crazy to me to say they’re “just saying” they’re a guy (dunno if you meant that in your comment, but I’m just gonna address it regardless. ‘Cause I can, y’know?;) ). Because that would literally entail lying to me, all my friends and my family (and most likely also that person’s friends and family) for multiple months at a time (and also for the rest of that person’s life, if we’d ever actually start dating..).
          And that just seems like a ridiculous amount of work, just to /maybe/, /eventually/ end up dating me, y’know?

          So, to repeat: I’m probably really the worst person to ask this question to.

          And to answer your question directly: I’m fine with having sex with someone regardless of their sex or gender. But I’m only interested in dating guys, which is why I’m saying I’m gay. But yes, I would be completely fine with dating a guy that has breasts and a vagina.

          Because I’d definitely have my reasons for falling for/dating that guy. And as long as those reasons continue to be a thing I can’t be bothered to care about which kind of genitals he has or whether he has a completely flat chest or not.

          So, yeah. I’d date and have sex with a guy, even if he has a vagina and breasts.

          Hope that answers your question (and that this reply won’t disappear like the last one did…).

          PS: If the comment actually still exists and is just invisible to me, for whichever weird reason there might be, then just ignore all this.
          It’s pretty much all just a repeat of what I already wrote, just kind of shortened.
          (And it’s still really long, because I don’t know how to keep myself short… Sorry for that, by the way.)

      • Frank says:

        “The fact that you identify as a woman or man is what makes you a woman or man.”

        That’s the big lie in black and white.

        I identify as an Cher but I know I’m not.

        That would make me delusional.

        • sicklefang says:

          I wrote a reply to you (which I didn’t save anywhere else before (or after) posting it, because I apparently never learn out of past mistakes..). Now I can’t see it anymore, so I guess it’s gone now/got deleted/whatever.
          So, you’ll get the short version (which I actually /did/ save somewhere else this time, but I’m still hoping this comment won’t suffer the same fate the other one did… Enjoy, I guess):

          The discussion was about whether the transgender agenda negatively impacts the homosexual agenda (aka, whether getting people to understand someone might be trans (and completely unable to change that fact about themselves) is harmful towards getting people to understand that someone might be homosexual (and completely unable to change that fact about themselves)).

          As such, whether or not it’s delusional for someone to be trans is completely beside the point/irrelevant/unrelated.

          “I identify as an Cher but I know I’m not.”

          Then you do not identify as such, going by the definition of the word “identify” that I was going for – which was knowing you are something and feeling like correcting others/uncomfortable/frustrated/angry, when they say you’re not – more often than not, there will also be prove of that being the truth (e.g. if you love a band, you identify as a fan of that band. If someone now says that you actually hate that band, you’ll feel like correcting them, because you actually really love them. Prove of you being a fan of them would be e.g. you knowing the lyrics to pretty much all their songs, or somesuch).

          That’s one of multiple official definitions of the word “identify” and the one I was going for.
          If you assumed I meant a different one, though, then I apologize for the misunderstanding. ‘Cause this was the one I was actually talking about.

          PS: If the reply actually still exists, but somehow is just invisible for me (which I doubt, but, y’know, I can hope, right?), then just ignore this, I guess. It’s really just the shortened version of the long comment that (at least as far as I can tell) has disappeared.

  2. whoiscis says:

    Thank you for this article Will. It’s nice to see some understanding out there.

  3. ananda says:

    Google search results for the dropthet petition have been manipulated to exclude a link to the actual petition. Google “dropthet change.org” and see. Any other search using that format brings up the petition being searched for as the first result.

What do you think?